Jeremy C

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Posts by Jeremy C

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  32

  The average Witness just doesn't talk about doctrine anymore

  by BonaFide in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if you were "in the truth" for some years, you will remember this.

  we used to have bible games at parties.

  we used to discuss doctrinal matters in the car group in service, and at get-togethers.

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  Jeremy C

  It would have been a more spiritual experience as a Avon Lady than a JW.

  LOL Whether you are selling make-up, or selling the Watchtower message; the dilemma is still the same: you can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig.
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  16

  2008 Publisher figures only poor countries increase and Japan still dead!?

  by Witness 007 in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  only poor 3rd world countries seem to be booming, not like the old days!.

  azebaijan 799 17% inc. burundi 8,233 12% inc. cambodia 329 25%.

  east timor 123 29%.

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  Jeremy C

  The Japanese figures are quite interesting. I can remember that Japan seemed to be viewed as the standard bearer for the rest of Jehovah's Witnesses. When I was young, I remember traveling overseers highlighting the activity of the Japanese brothers; particularly when it came to pioneer figures. There seemed to be a view that the American friends were spiritually lazy when compared to the Japanese friends. How often did we hear traveling overseers say: "We need to be more like the Japanese friends".

  Well, maybe the Watchtower leadership will get it's wish. Maybe the U.S. and European friends will follow the example of the Japanese and start to decrease as well. Wouldn't that just warm the Governing Body's hearts?
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  32

  The average Witness just doesn't talk about doctrine anymore

  by BonaFide in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if you were "in the truth" for some years, you will remember this.

  we used to have bible games at parties.

  we used to discuss doctrinal matters in the car group in service, and at get-togethers.

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  2. 
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  Jeremy C

  A few months ago, I brought up a Bible question in the car group for service. One of the brothers said to me, "Are you stuck in the 90's or something?"

  Yeah, BonaFide. Don't you know that Jehoober's celestial chariot is constantly on the move? It may be weaving left to right, and at times going in reverse. But hey - at least it's on the move.
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  32

  The average Witness just doesn't talk about doctrine anymore

  by BonaFide in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if you were "in the truth" for some years, you will remember this.

  we used to have bible games at parties.

  we used to discuss doctrinal matters in the car group in service, and at get-togethers.

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  Jeremy C

  I would go further and say that many witnesses don't even know what the "current" teaching is on a number of things. What difference does it make? You can't get too attached to any doctrine that may change at any time.

  [ chuckling ] Yes, absolutely. It's like a baseball fan not wanting to become too attached to a particular player on his home team; knowing that the player may be traded in the next season. Watchtowerism is like a giant checker board, with the doctrines being the checkers - being moved around to and fro.

  I found it quite burdensome to try to engage with householders on doctrinal issues. I found that I could not truly rationalize and justify them myself. Thus, I was just parroting what the headquarters told us to teach. I did not even want to reach people at home. I simply wanted to stuff the tract in the door and flee the scene before I could get caught.
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  36

  NY Times: "Bad times are good for churches." Why so little JW growth?

  by Seeker4 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  in today's ny times there is an article on this topic, and here are two quotes:.

  "bad times are good for evangelical churches.

  'its a wonderful time, a great evangelistic opportunity for us,' said the rev.

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  Jeremy C

  The Witnesses don't trust their member's talents in much of anything. Talks are from detailed outlines or even manuscripts. The music is pre-recorded - hell, it's a wonder they still let us sing! And the dramas are all pre-recorded. The room for artistic creativity is nearly nil in the WTS. At least the churches do better than that.

  Very interesting observation. I have a real life experience along these lines. I have a very close friend who is a part time actor and who is a Christian rap artist. Him and I have had many conversations about my JW past. He related to me that about twenty years ago, he was studying with the Witnesses, attending the meetings, and came close to being baptized. He even remembered a few of the popular local JW families that I knew.

  He related to me that after engaging in all of this Watchtower activity, something inside him told him that something was amiss with the JWs. He felt that the whole affair was quite dry, monotone, and stiffling. He eventually voted with his feet and left. Today, he is a born again Christian and is currently performing in mega-churches around the country. His Christian hip-hop is inspiring a lot of young people within the churches. He recently released a new CD, all with the blessing of his pastor!

  Could you imagine a Witness who wanted to do something like this? He'd be in the back room with the elders in no time flat. Just imagine what JW meetings and conventions could be like if JWs were allowed to employ their abilities and talents without having to be micro-managed and having their hands held by Brooklyn.
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  29

  Life after being a Witness...What are your beliefs now?

  by Quirky1 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  some here have moved on, some have found new faith and some have haven't.

  did you maintain christianity or do you no longer believe?

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  Jeremy C

  After I left the Watchtower, I attempted to cling to Christianity. I attended a couple of churches, went to Bible study groups, and even came close to being re-baptized. But, as I continued to research the Bible, science, and history, I eventually realized that I was deluding myself. I was using the same mental filters of rationalization and justification that I used in the Watchtower.

  I am now an agnostic. I still enjoy studying other religions; but I can hardly see any rationality in using religion or sacred texts as a basis for my world view.
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  32

  The average Witness just doesn't talk about doctrine anymore

  by BonaFide in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if you were "in the truth" for some years, you will remember this.

  we used to have bible games at parties.

  we used to discuss doctrinal matters in the car group in service, and at get-togethers.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  Jeremy C

  Watchtower doctrines are for memorizing and repeating; not discussing. To discuss something means that questions are present within the subject being discussed. Just imagine the reaction within a JW car group if someone announced that they wanted to discuss the issue of interpreting the 144,000 as a literal number. Is a JW allowed to raise questions about the Society's interpretative methods? Not in the open. And certainly not if they wish to receive future invitations to baby showers.

  Doctrine is sort of a "don't go there" zone. One can repeat what one has read in a publication with comments of flattery and gratitude, but discussion always evokes that which is forbidden: questioning. I certainly agree with the title of this thread. I have noticed that JW conversations usually always revolve around assembly talks, Watchtower articles about the end being near, or latest experiences from places like Cameroon. But, doctrinal discussions are completely absent.

  Why discuss something when the Faithful Slave has already figured it out for you? The individual JWs job is not to figure things out. Their job is to memorize what is printed, and dutifully sell the Watchtower product from door-to-door.
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  36

  NY Times: "Bad times are good for churches." Why so little JW growth?

  by Seeker4 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  in today's ny times there is an article on this topic, and here are two quotes:.

  "bad times are good for evangelical churches.

  'its a wonderful time, a great evangelistic opportunity for us,' said the rev.

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  Jeremy C

  Seeker, you touched on a very important point.

  I have noticed that many of these large churches offer so much more to their congregants than the Watchtower does. For example, there is a large church in the community where I live that has free day care for parents who are attending Sunday services. There are free support groups for single mothers, people suffering from depression, and groups for teenagers; among others. These churches realize that the congregation's role is about so much more than just sitting in services twice a week. It is about helping people just deal with life.

  What does the Watchtower offer? Well, you get the privilege of turning in a monthy time slip. And, you get the added perk of a traveling overseer coming to tell you that you need to increase the hours on that time slip.

  In most of these mainline churches, congregants are viewed as individuals with unique needs; and ones to be cared for. In the Watchtower, members are viewed as employees who are required to comply with a "one size fits all" program of work. In many of the churches, their mission is to build people up into strong autonomous individuals. In the Watchtower, it is mostly about controlling people's thinking and behavior.

  The Watchtower leadership simply does not get it. As life becomes progressively more complex and stress filled, people need more than just dry meetings where you reherse door-to-door talking points. And the constant "do more" drum beat that echos throughout the kingdom halls does not build people up.
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  36

  The Reason ex-JWs Don't Communicate Well With Others

  by StAnn in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've been giving this a lot of thought.

  i'm thinking that, as a born-in, i was raised thinking that everybody who wasn't a dub was stupid and i had to go door-to-door to enlighten them.

  and that the ones who were so stupid and stubborn as to not respond to my message (which was all of them, lol!

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  Jeremy C

  My experience was quite different. I began to dislike and let go of the JW sense of elitism a while before leaving the organization. In fact, it was the Watchtower's superiority complex that was one of the biggest factors in moving me to question the organization. I have had many people comment to me how nice and polite I am. My first "worldly" girlfriend told me that she had never met a guy who was as respectful to women as I was.

  However, I certainly do admit that I am very socially under-developed in many ways. It has been difficult to get close to people, and to relate to them on certain levels. Dating has been very difficult. Those born in the organization (as was I) learn many social characteristics that are unique to JWs and must be unlearned in order to function socially after leaving. The adjustment process is strenuous and takes persistence. The sense of being different from everyone else is a feeling that still persists.
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  21

  Bush and the Bible just in on CNN news. Bushs bible talk stuns evangelicals

  by Trying2understand in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i thought that you would want to see this.

  i can careless about him, but his opinion will be seen by many.

  president bush said in a recent interview he doesn't take the bible literally.. http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/12/11/am.intv.brody.bush.bible.cnn if the link does not come up, you can go to cnn.com to click on the direct link..

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  Jeremy C

  Very interesting. I'm wondering how many Evangelicals had buyer's remorse after hearing of Bush's Biblical views. For him to make the statements that he made about evolution and other religions had to create enormous dissonance among his ardent Evangleical supporters. Many conservative Christians were greatly dissapointed in Nixon merely for the fact that the Nixon tapes revealed his liberal use of profanity. For someone to make the kinds of statements about evolution that he did is far worse.

  It was the Evangelical base that helped save his bacon in the 2000 primaries against John McCain. And then for him to turn around and say that people of other faiths are praying to the same god that Christians are? That has to hurt.

  See . . . . . . . . if all of these Evangelicals would just become Jehovah's Witnesses, they would never have to hear one of their leaders say such heretical blasphemies!